Fallout Lore | New Vegas' conflict doesn't make any sense, Part 2

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• New Vegas' conflict doesn't make any sense, Part 2
• How do Vault Dwellers not die pretty much immediately from disease after leaving the vault?
• The Cap Economy on the East Coast
• Why were Ulysses and Elijha at the Big Empty?
• Caesar's Legion and the NCR's war is like the Punic Wars.

New Vegas' conflict doesn't make any sense, Part 2 Posted: 25 Nov 2020 05:00 PM PST In the first part, I addressed the manpower issue the Legion should be facing that didn't make sense. The second part will deal with another issue that's widely stated to be the most major factor in the war. II. Political support We're told that the Mojave war is an unpopular endeavour, that people don't support it, that politicians are reluctant to give their support and that the long war is draining the NCR. We hear it everywhere, that the reason the NCR can't fight properly is because of the government back home And as a commentary style, it makes sense. Drawbacks of democracy being slow action is something that's already known. That and internal corruption explains why Congress is hamstringing the war. But here's the thing. The Mojave War was not an unpopular war at the beginning. It was an extremely popular move. It was so popular that the signing of the Treaty of New Vegas singlehandedly won Kimball his second term, because of the water and electricity it brought home. House himself tells you all this, that "Kimball's war" will make or break his political career. In 2278, the Legion had been routed and forced to retreat, at the cost of 107 soldiers. NCR troops had total control over the western bank and partial control over the eastern bank of the Colorado. While House and the Three Families would make war costly, the NCR could simply starve them out by blockading New Vegas, or even just the Strip. Even Mk.I Securitrons would be no threat against long range explosives like missiles, grenades and anti-material bullets, especially pulse grenades which the Gun Runners can manufacture. And the Families themselves aren't numerous or disciplined enough to be a threat. The NCR faced no significant challenges in the Mojave for the next two years (2278-2280). It was ripe for the taking. A huge reservoir of fresh water, massive amounts of electric power, usable factories all around, trade revenue and dealings with House's technical knowledge? Nothing would make a president more popular, and nothing would make business more profitable. The inclusion of the Mojave would be comparable to the Dayglow Address, elevating Kimball to Tandi's status. A status any President would give their arm for to achieve. In fact, negotiating with Oliver at the end of the House route gets the Courier to offer numerous deals such as technology sharing, improved trade and regional security to convince him to leave the Mojave. Things that Oliver himself concedes are worth giving up the Mojave for. On top of that, the NCR (at least Oliver, if not Moore) knows exactly how valuable House and the Mojave is, with RobCo still being the base of numerous technologies they use. It's clear that the NCR knows how much they have to gain from the Mojave. Yet they didn't push forward. Sending in soldiers with six months of training, equipped with pristine weaponry and backed with mortars, grenadiers, machine guns, snipers and missiles would've made defensively holding the region a cinch. And all that is technology the NCR can produce, have purchased, and most importantly, is man-portable. Let alone long range support with Vertibirds, of which a fleet is kept at the Long 15, which could provide recon and unload an insane amount of firepower upon any Legionaries. If the Legion couldn't bring down the Remnants, they wouldn't be able to do anything against Vertibirds that are both maintained and armed. It's not impossible for the NCR to do so. Assuming Ranger School is so famed because how alike it is to the U.S. Army Ranger training, they can simply give their soldiers similar but more forgiving training to get good-quality soldiers. Hanlon tells us that failure in the Mojave would be a disaster for Kimball, Oliver and the Senate, meaning all three backed the campaign. As Supreme Commander of the NCRA, as well as having the backing of Senate, Kimball would have full authority over sending troops into the region. So if the Senate will be ruined if they lose the Mojave, why don't they act? The war is unpopular only because the general sentiment is that it should have ended a while back. People don't want their soldiers dying on foreign soil for years. Yet, the use of Hoover Dam is extremely popular amongst the citizenry. On top of that, Kimball is an experienced, famed general. A war hero of the NCR who even Caesar praises. Someone who after dealing with tribal warfare and crushing two tribes (Sierra Nevadas and Bullhead City) knows exactly how the Legion might fight. So why does he allow Oliver's idiocy? Is his friendship with Oliver so great that he'd put his political career on the line for him? You'd think a former general would look at a situation he dealt with before and know exactly how to get it resolved. We're also told that winning the Mojave would guarantee his third re-election. And the flow of water and electricity would mean any Senators opposing these benefits would be committing political suicide. So why, despite having the tools, knowledge and the backing, did he fail to secure the Mojave in 2278? While the Brotherhood war might have left people with a lack of trust in the currency, it's heavily implied that that's the situation on the frontiers only, not the heartlands. Even Chomps Lewis says that $100 is 40 caps "around here." So low finances can't be the case if everything remains the same except for the gold exchange. Especially if the government relies on taxes that NCR citizens have to pay, in NCR dollars. The NCR economy is still going strong in terms of output. I get that it's supposed to mirror Vietnam, but unlike Vietnam, the Mojave is a treasure trove for the NCR. Vietnam was a geopolitical intervention with no benefit for the US. The NCR's Mojave invasion would be more like the British invasion of India, where the Empire stood to gain billions in profit. And that's exactly why despite the long supply chain back to the Isles, they still made sure to hold the region as tightly as they could, because of how valuable it was. Lastly, even if we talk about corruption in the Senate, the acquisition of New Vegas means more water for the Brahmin barons and safer trade for the caravan companies. Plus, not all Brahmin barons are like Heck Gunderson. FO2 had one as a Senator who was willing to do the right thing, and was loyal to the NCR as well. The Senate isn't totally compromised, as with evidence, they went after the Crimson Caravan, an entity with power leagues beyond mere Barons, only rivaled by the Gun Runners, and legislated strict trade laws, so it's not a plutocracy as some think. After all, Hanlon does convince the wealthy state of Redding (NCR'S mining town and premier source of gold) to elect him as their leader on an anti-war platform, so the risk of being voted out means Senators can't ignore the populace. Either NCR politicians are stupid enough to toss away free votes and money, or their inaction in the conflict doesn't make sense. submitted by /u/Crystal_Sohnd [link] [comments]

How do Vault Dwellers not die pretty much immediately from disease after leaving the vault? Posted: 25 Nov 2020 03:46 PM PST I've been thinking: even if they had perfect diets and balanced vitamins, how does disease not absolutely ravage them? They have no exposure to outside bacteria. Is there anything that they take to help them adapt? submitted by /u/SacredMythos [link] [comments]

The Cap Economy on the East Coast Posted: 25 Nov 2020 07:56 PM PST Hello Fallout fans! Recently, someone made a thread talking about a possible FAQ for r/falloutlore. It reminded me of the fact that two of my posts on this subreddit (on synths and power armor) were made because I wanted something easy to point to when those topics came up. So, I want to do that again. Quick Disclaimer: I do not use the Fallout Bible as canon. Not that it changes much in this case, anyway. The East Coast's Use of the Bottle Cap It's a topic that comes up often, with one recent thread focused on a possible explanation for the East Coast's use of the bottle cap. I disagree with the premise in that thread and have written about it before, so might as well compile it all in one place. Nuka Cola and the Bottle Cap Fallout 76 shows one of the earliest known instances (perhaps the earliest) of the bottle cap currency. For those unfamiliar, the Whitespring Resort was partnered with the Nuka Cola Corporation for a special promotion that saw caps used as legal tender. Staff Bulletin, October 2077 TO: All Staff FROM: J. Wilcox, General Manager CONFIDENTIAL - NOT FOR PUBLIC RELEASE Several updates this month. * THE SPRINGHILL golf tournament has been canceled. * The Nuka-Cola Corporation will sponsor our first BUSINESS CLASS promotion. To celebrate the release of Nuka-Cola Quantum, Nuka-Cola bottle caps will be accepted as legal tender throughout the hotel. * The IRONCLAD SERVICE transition concludes this month. With limited exceptions, all non-management personnel should have received their termination notices. An Employee Farewell dinner will be held in Governor's Hall on 10/15 at 7:30pm. On behalf of the management team, I would like to thank you for your years of dedicated service to The Whitespring. For completeness sake, it should be noted that robotic vendors accepting caps as money has happened before in canon. Hopeville and Ashton's military installations had automated commissaries installed which accepted ration chits to dispense goods. The enterprising soldiers of said bases figured out they accepted bottlecaps too: Attention all base personnel: The automated Commissary system has been locked down until further notice. It turns out that the "counterfeit-proof" pay chits we've been issuing to you are exactly the same size and shape as ordinary bottlecaps). Until we can correct the problem, you'll have to make your purchases the old-fashioned way. -SSGT Lansky However, there are no provided dates on those entries, so we can't determine which came first - the commissary trick or the Nuka Cola promotion. Likewise, this is more of a trick or glitch than any official use of the bottle cap as money. Furthermore, we know that the survivors inside the Whitesprings Resort were still able to use bottle caps months after the Great War: USER LOG - 12/14/77 When the world goes to hell, you don't expect much good news. Well, today we got some: Paula's inventory. We're set. With so few people left on the property, we've got food enough to last years, maybe a decade. Other supplies, too: clothes, meds, spare parts, generators. Guns and ammo, if we need them. Probably better off than those Vaults. Can't be too careful, though. That Nuka-Cola promotion is still going on, so I've arranged for the robots to bring me the caps they collect, and I'll dole them out to the guests so they can buy what they need. Makes for a nice little rationing system. I was trying to find information on the adoption of the bottle cap by the Water Merchants of the Hub, but neither the bottle cap entry nor the Hub entry have any in-game or official dates and instead rely on the Fallout Bible. Unless we assume that the Hub was established the exact month of the Great War, this suggest that the East Coast use of the bottle cap predates the West Coast use. Spread Outside the Resort Here there is less definitive evidence. There are a few possible explanations for the use of bottle caps across Appalachia's robotic vendors: The Nuka Cola promotion was a statewide West Virginia event, not merely limited to the Whitespring. This might be practically possible for a rich company like Nuka Cola to implement, though I admit there is no other mention of the promotion in lore. You'd think there would be. A tech-savvy person from the Resort might have copied the programming and spread it out to the rest of Appalachia. Perhaps as a trade deal with someone on the outside or in preparation for their eventual abandonment of the Resort. Perhaps this happened multiple times. We know there is a Whitesprings "diaspora", where the guests at the Resort are kicked out due to the location's hardcoded remodeling program. The Resort residents head to various different locations. Perhaps Lew or another programmer copied the Nuka Cola promotional software as a sort of gift or tribute to any locations the Resort guests hoped to move into. For example, the group who headed to Charleston might have held a copy of the program to barter their admittance into the town, or to use it along the way at the various shops. If Charleston accepts and welcomes the refugees in return for the code, nothing stops Charleston from further spreading the code. The programming was independently discovered elsewhere and spread from there. The Enclave or MODUS helped the code spread for us as the "new currency" to pay agents with: We'll be sure to have a disbursement of ... whatever it is being used for currency up there these days credited to your account. Someone just told the robots that people use bottle caps now. After all, you can just tell Skinner that people use bottle caps as currency now and he seems to roll with it. Though, this might also just be unique to Skinner. Skinner is unique, to put it kindly. Or a combination of all of the above. All we know is that by the time the Resident enters Appalachia in 2102, the bottle cap is in widespread use. What Backs the Appalachian Bottle Cap? "Backed" can mean two things, both of which are important here. When people often ask "What backs the East Coast cap?" they are often thinking about it in comparison to the West Coast cap, which is backed by water or gold (the wiki entry only offers developer statements). In this sense, people are talking about caps as representative money. We can see examples of this thinking here, here, and here. To answer this question on its own grounds, nothing backs the East Coast cap. To answer this question in another, truer sense, social contract and software programming backs the East Coast cap. It is fiat money. In Appalachia, bottle caps have value because robots (software programming) says it does, and therefore people agree that caps are valuable (social contract). At the same time, since people agree that caps have value, robots can be convinced that caps have value (Skinner). It is impossible to disentangle these two social backers for the eastern bottle cap. Even if you remove one, the other will guarantee its resurgence. West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Maryland Disclaimer: The wiki does not have a full listing of all Fallout 76: Wastelander dialogue files, so some of these will require video evidence rather than quotations. We know many of the original inhabitants of Appalachia fled during the Scourged Plague's height. The Raider faction from Wastelanders, for example, is comprised of native Appalachians: The Raiders are no strangers to Appalachia. At one time they even called it home. After they caught wind that people were returning to the land they once claimed for themselves, the Raiders and their leader Meg decided to come back and put a stop to anyone who would dare snatch up their rightful territory. In-game, Meg mentions being from Appalachia and leaving during the Plague (5:36 to 7:12). Basically, we know that not everyone died due to the Plague. Some survivors or perhaps smaller groups of survivors upped and left, only to return later. This is not unreasonable given the above in-game examples as well as the real world distances between Fallout 76 and 3. There's a twelve hour hike between Harper's Ferry (Fallout 76) and Raven Rock (Fallout 3). There's a 24 hour hike between Morgantown (Fallout 76) and Pittsburg (Fallout 3). The proximity to these two locations suggests a causal link between the use of caps in Appalachia and them. The Spread of Caps to the East Coast To re-iterate: Appalachia is the first known adopter of the bottle cap. The Appalachian cap is fiat money, it's value upheld by social custom and robotic vendors. Appalachia's automated infrastructure is seemingly producing goods even past the war. Appalachia is in close proximity to two locations we know end up adopting the bottle cap as currency. People can move and travel between these locations. We know definitively that people do travel between these locations as of Wastelanders. We can surmise that the use of caps spread from Appalachia to the Capital Wasteland and the Pitt. People who traded with Appalachia valued the cap because the Appalachians value the cap. This is all that is necessary for trade to function - an agreement on both parties that the currency being used has value. Refugees fleeing from Appalachia could no longer access the robot vendors. However, they still had the social contract agreeing to give caps value. The Pitt and Capital Wasteland still uses caps despite the (temporary) loss of the robotic vendors, because the immigrants from the area still give the cap value. No alternate or widespread backer for the cap emerges. This is important. Imagine if the Pitt, for example, suddenly declares that caps are now representative money, with each cap representing 1 kg of steel. Well, why would the Appalachian refugees or the Capital Wasteland agree to that? That would devalue their currency. Or imagine that the Capital Wasteland decides that each cap must represent 1 bottle of purified water. Well, why would the Appalachians or the Pitt agree to that? That would devalue their currency. What if the Appalachians suddenly said that each cap must represent 1 shard of ultracite? Why would the Capital Wasteland or the Pitt agree to that? That would devalue their currency. Exactly when this process began is unknown. As it how long it took. What we do know is that, by 2103, the Blue Ridge Caravan Company has entered the area, hoping for trade. It has seemingly retaken access to the Blue Ridge Parkway, connecting several counties and states together, and, according to Vinny: Since we're one of the few sources of outside cargo coming in, even the folks up in Crater give us a pass. Since they take caps as payment, this means that the cap still functioned despite the temporary abandonment of Appalachia, away from its robotic backers. Furthermore, if we buy into this theory, we have an easy way to explain the use of caps in the Commonwealth and it's related areas. Meg's wiki entry mentions traveling to the Capital Wasteland and the Commonwealth during Appalachia's abandonment: We've traveled the Wasteland from the Commonwealth to DC. We take... whatever we want. And we want that vault. Who's going to stop us? You? However, this reference is unverified, so take it with a grain of salt. This reference, on the other hand, is verified: You should have seen her back in her heyday! Why, we traveled up and down the coast, from the Commonwealth to the Broken Banks. Good times, but these days she's not fit to take out to the coast. Too many spouts ready to drown her, and too many critters looking for lunch. Taken together, or even just alone, this suggests that there was a sufficiently flourishing trade between D.C. and the Commonwealth. This opens up a possible venue for fiat caps to spread to the Commonwealth (and Bar Harbor and Nuka World). Coincidentally, if the Broken Banks is indeed a reference to the Outer Banks in North Carolina as its wiki entry suggests, it should be pointed out that the Blue Ridge Parkway extends to North Carolina: The Parkway runs from Virginia all the way to Cherokee, North Carolina. If the Blue Ridge Caravan Company's memo is real, then there is reason to believe there is both land and sea trade between the Capital Wasteland and some unknown group in North Carolina. Some Possible Objections Could the Capital Wasteland, the Pitt, and the Commonwealth have come up with caps on their own? Yes. However, there is (as of this writing on 25/11/2020) no evidence that suggests this. Could caps become backed by gold, as suggested by the Resident in Wastelanders with regards to the Secret Service Vault? Sure. However, there is (as of this writing on 25/11/2020) no evidence that suggests this. Arguably, turning caps into a commodity money would be useless at this point. Caps already have value. It doesn't need some backing material resources. Could the Brotherhood of Steel have imported the idea of a commodity backed cap to the East Coast? As I mentioned elsewhere, the BoS would somehow have to become a big enough economic player and gain enough influence on the Capital Wasteland, the Pitt, Appalachia, and the Commonwealth to introduce the idea of representative money. They would also have to convince all of these regions that their fiat caps are worthless now. They would also have to convince Appalachia to just stop using the robotic vendors. They would also have to not be convinced to adopt a fiat currency by everyone else. Could the East Coast cap become a representative currency after the events of Fallout 76? Sure. however, there is (as of this writing on 25/11/2020) no evidence that suggests this. Neither Fallout 3 or Fallout 4 suggest that bottle caps are representative money. Couldn't the cap have been introduced by a Jet Road? Only if we imagine that a Jet Road was established before the Bombs dropped and the Nuka Cola Corporation ran their promotion. Frankly, I put negative stock into the Jet Road theory. Quick Summary Appalachia gave the East Coast the use of bottle caps. On the East Coast, bottle caps are fiat money, backed up by social agreement. Attempts to turn it into a commodity money have either failed or were never attempted in the first place. I can't think of anything else to add, and I think I'm reaching the 1k word limit, so that'll be all. Feel free to add on or critique. submitted by /u/Arrebios [link] [comments]

Why were Ulysses and Elijha at the Big Empty? Posted: 25 Nov 2020 08:27 AM PST submitted by /u/Rustypipeleg [link] [comments]

Caesar's Legion and the NCR's war is like the Punic Wars. Posted: 25 Nov 2020 11:37 PM PST Caesar's Legion and the NCR's war is literally like the Punic Wars. Think about it. The first Battle of Hoover Dam is just the first battle. The Romans were losing because they were used to fighting tribal warbands instead of societies like Carthage and they weren't good at naval warfare. So after a few defeats they adapted and improved their strategy just like the Legion did after the first battle at the Dam. If the Legion wins then that concludes the "First Punic War" part of New Vegas. The Second Punic War will probably have Colonel Hsu, (The most competent military commander and the most likely to want revenge to lead a (probably unsupported and unauthorized counter invasion to retake the Dam and New Vegas. The Legion will likely be informed about this by the Frumentarii and will simply let this vengeful NCR force march into the territory for a while, and probably even do some ambushes and feigned retreats to lure them in further. Then pretend to abandon territory to them and raise up their morale before crushing them in a massive ambush massacre or turning the Mojave into a desert Vietnam by using tactics similar to the Rangers. The troops under colonel Hsu will then have to retreat to survive or be wiped out entirely by the Legion. Then that will conclude the Second Punic War part of New Vegas and further weaken the NCR. Then comes the Third and final Punic War which will most likely be preceded by several bombings and sabotages by the Frumentarii. The Legion will most likely wait for quite a while to allow the NCR to fall into chaos from all of its internal problems then invade it. The difference is that the Legion will have to be extremely merciful during this final campaign against the NCR. No taking slaves unless it's raider gangs and it will have to do more to help the civilian population to get them on their side. But I do believe that is roughly how the war will go if the Legion wins Hoover Dam. submitted by /u/No-Comparison-9572 [link] [comments]

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