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    Home Unlabelled Fallout | Fallout 4 feels to me like a huge, shallow time sink with no payoff and not enough memorable things. [POTENTIAL FALLOUT 4 STRUGGLE SESSION]

    Fallout | Fallout 4 feels to me like a huge, shallow time sink with no payoff and not enough memorable things. [POTENTIAL FALLOUT 4 STRUGGLE SESSION]

    July 30, 2020

    Fallout | Fallout 4 feels to me like a huge, shallow time sink with no payoff and not enough memorable things. [POTENTIAL FALLOUT 4 STRUGGLE SESSION]

    Fallout 4 feels to me like a huge, shallow time sink with no payoff and not enough memorable things. [POTENTIAL FALLOUT 4 STRUGGLE SESSION]

    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 06:06 PM PDT

    I've spent about 60 hours on Fallout 4 in the last few weeks, and I've finally realised that Bethesda games are enormous time wasters. At least Fallout 4 and Skyrim are. The complaints below might be anodyne to a lot of the people here, or they might be very controversial, but these things are hitting me particularly hard while replaying Fallout 4. I've played it before, but having spent so much time with it recently, the realisation has dawned on me more harshly.

    Bethesda build these amazing worlds with so much detail and complexity to them, only to inundate you with hours of fetch quests, bore you with a main quest that has no substance, and have you follow a map marker to the detriment of the world they've built. They encourage you to look down at the bottom of the screen to the degree that you never have to actually look around at the world to try and find a solution to whatever problem the game throws at you. Even if you turn the objective marker off, the problem that the games have is that 1) some quests require you to know the exact location of an item for you to progress and 2) you're incentivised to look at the bottom of the screen to find new locations to explore instead of just stumbling across them naturally (or with the help of your Pip-Boy map). You're not encouraged to just look at the world. You're not encouraged to memorise the landscapes or routes from one location to another. The fast travel isn't the problem here, either. It has everything to do with the way the game pushes you to walk in one direction nonstop until you reach your objective, and the way new locations are shown to you before you even find them. It's hard to call this "distracting" when it's a fundamental way the game is constructed. You're meant to look at the bottom of the screen. They clearly want your eyes there at all times.

    Another problem I have is that almost no companion in either Fallout 4 has a legitimate reason to follow you or feels motivated - ideologically or opportunistically - to do so. I can't recall a single one of them struggling to have a reason to follow you and just doing it because that's what the game expects of them. While this problem extends to Skyrim, I want to keep the complaints to Fallout 4 since that's the topic of the sub. Preston has possibly the best reason to follow you: You saved his life and the lives of his friends, and he has nothing else to fight for after the Minutemen are disbanded and his friends find safe haven in Sanctuary. So he doesn't bug me that much. But Piper follows you for basically no reason, because you answer some questions. Does she require you to find her a scoop for her newspaper, or uncover dirt on the mayor? Nope. Nick Valentine kind of abandons his job to follow you after he does a job for you, which makes it seem like he doesn't actually have a full-time job with an employee working for him; he doesn't even require your assistance to work through a different job before he agrees almost unconditionally to follow you. Paladin Danse following a wastelander - even one that helped him in a rough spot - makes even less sense because that's the sort of shit that if his commanders found out about they'd probably reprimand him. They fucking hate Paladins associating with wastelanders. This is established canon. Deacon immediately likes you despite knowing very little about you and requires no convincing for him to follow you. John Hancock is pretty similar. There's just no depth to these companions and even though they all have distinct personalities, the lack of conflict and the lack of conversation options makes them feel very boring and bland. They're fun and entertaining but only on a surface level.

    What annoys me more about this is that they will idolise you if you do enough odd tasks to placate them. Pick a bunch of locks with Piper around? She'll sleep with you after you pass a speech check. Use chems around Hancock? He'll tell you what a hip, rad person you are with basically no effort on my part as a player. Just be an asshole to everybody with Cait around? She will fall in love with you. It's so stupid to me. Again, Preston is the one whose affection for the player makes the most sense and requires the most effort; you have to do a lot of pro-Minutemen quests or do a lot of good deeds and stand up to shitty people for him to like you. His loyalty feels earned, and he's pretty much the only one that applies to. But I honestly don't think the level of trust applies to the other characters. They trust you if you just do enough random things they like. They'll spill their guts to you or sleep with you despite having few conversations with them and not helping them with any personal problems. Give Piper a pep talk about her sister, and you're all set. It's frustratingly shallow.

    Literally nothing in this game comes anywhere close to earning Cass's or Boone's or Arcade's or Veronica's trust in Fallout: New Vegas. It's honestly kind of a joke by comparison. Those characters won't just follow you for any reason. You can't just twiddle your thumbs to make Boone follow you. You have to help him meaningfully, and even then he only leaves because he doesn't trust anybody and wants to be gone. Veronica follows you only after she senses you aren't hostile to the Brotherhood of Steel, and because she wants a traveling companion. There are explicit and clear reasons why people follow you in that game. And if you want to earn their trust and get them to live in the endgame with relative peace, you need to do an enormous amount to do so. And if you don't want to help them? If you dislike them and don't want anything to do with them? You can literally kill them yourself. The game gives you that option. With Fallout 4 the character relationships feel arbitrary and meaningless, like there's no weight to the beliefs or decisions of anybody. It doesn't help that every character is potentially bisexual and you can technically fuck every single one of them. Just throw on some Fashionable Glasses, drink some alcohol, and wear some fancy clothes, and passing their speech checks is easy. You can coerce people in this game to do things easily.

    Which I guess brings me to the fact that there is almost no capacity to roleplay in this ostensibly roleplaying game. You don't have to make sacrifices to accomplish goals, and you don't have to choose a specific path. You can pretty much do anything you want with few limitations, which sounds freeing and liberating, but it actually removes the whole idea of playing a role from a series that has emphasised that for years. An RPG where you can pretty much do anything without risking alienating most people in the world because you chose one side over another is not really an RPG. And when you get around to interacting with people, the dialogue choices are limited as hell, you can't kill essential characters like Preston (which makes saving or helping him a foregone conclusion), questlines play out in an incredibly boring and linear fashion, and outside of a few moments the game doesn't actually give you a lot of room to decide the outcome of major incidents. You don't even have to actually choose one group over another when it comes to combating the Institute. The endings are simplistic and practically binary. I know it's a bit of a meme to compare the choices you have in other Fallout games with this one, and the consequences of those choices, but you have no room to roleplay as a person you want to be in this game. High or low INT doesn't impact the dialogue or speech checks. High or low charisma impacts things minimally. You're pretty much going to have 1 of 2 conversations every time you talk with anybody about anything. Even when you come to the crossroad where you have to choose a side in the main conflict of the game, you can play your cards right and bring everybody together, which sounds good in theory, but it isn't earned in a way that makes the opposing sides set aside their conflict. Ideology dissolves under the weight of the player making decisions that has fuckall to do with these people and their opposition to one another, and it makes it seem like the Minutemen, Brotherhood, and Railroad opposing one another in any way is baseless and petty. There's just nothing to these conflicts. If the characters in your game set aside their differences because the player did 1 thing, then you haven't written compelling conflicts. You've written lousy artifices to trick people into being motivated into bringing them together (which is insultingly easy) or choosing one side over another (which you don't actually need to do).

    The settlement minigame is kind of cool, but ultimately pointless. The game doesn't change the least bit whether you decide to build settlements or not. There's no reward to it, and very rarely do you need to build settlements to unlock questlines or get a character to like you. It all feels so damn hollow and pointless. For a game that demands so much time from the player to do things, there's nowhere near enough payoff to justify it. I could just go play Rust or Minecraft or another type of game for a more thorough and less frustrating experience building settlements.

    So yeah, that's how I feel about Fallout 4, and even Skyrim for the most part. They're big beautiful time wasters with no real substance. I remember next to nothing about Skyrim after spending a hundred hours in it and while I remember more about Fallout 4, I don't remember being challenged in any meaningful way. I mostly remember shambling from place to place, helping settlement after settlement with raiders and super mutants, until I got bored and went off to Diamond City to fuck around with the main quest that I found underwhelming, and meeting people who don't force me to analyse their beliefs or my own. The conflicts are mostly petty, the quests I'm given feel like tedious chores, and it's all an excuse to get you to explore the world that they ultimately don't even want you to look at because they force your eyes down to the bottom of the screen. It's numbing, repetitious, and draining. I feel part of my soul dying the more I play either one of these games.

    Apologies for the melodrama of the writing by the end there, but I'm very frustrated with this game and don't think I'm gonna play it further. I really don't feel like there's a point to anything. I'm becoming a nihilist thanks to this game.

    submitted by /u/DouggieMohamJones
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    If we ever get another Fallout game based in New England, Bethesda should bring back the Gunners.

    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 03:06 PM PDT

    I know that in Fallout 4 they were basically just reskinned raiders, but with better stuff, but there's obviously a lot of potential for the Gunners to be an interesting faction. I mean, in Fallout 4 they pretty much have all of the necessary things to be a faction, all that needs to be done is Bethesda to write them in as a faction instead of just another enemy.

    I don't know, just my thoughts.

    submitted by /u/OnetimeRocket13
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    The fact that kings in freeside fought and refused to surrender on their land after Legion victory on hoover dam is amazing.

    Posted: 30 Jul 2020 01:49 AM PDT

    Just think about it - some ex-tribal boys who barely hold pistols and worship Elvis stood against whole legion in freeside and every single was taken down defending their land. While experienced NCR troopers ready to commit suicide by shooting themselves just on sight of shadow of legionaries (they literally have dialogue line which says that).

    submitted by /u/pie_addict35
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    I'm in shock and so happy at the same time!

    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 09:02 PM PDT

    It was just another day... was playing 76 and havin a pretty good time as usual when I realized... man, I really miss New Vegas... and then it hit me... I NEVER PLAYED THE DLCs???? I turned on my Xbox One SO fast and boom here we are... Honest Hearts and Old World Blues... thanks quarantine!

    submitted by /u/Amoxton
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    The most impactful pre-war story I believe it's often overlooked in Fallout 4. The story of Chinese internment camps.

    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 08:56 PM PDT

    I don't mean to sound like elitist but I believe too many casual players view America somehow at the good guys. I know some people will chop it up too "it was just war what do you expect"

    I know it's fictional but in the real world we are having tensions rising with China. We have to remember Chinese-Americans and Asian Americans are not a enemy.

    Here's a good oxhorn story in case you overlooked this semi-hidden lore.

    https://youtu.be/kbgSoNUeduY

    submitted by /u/wantafuckinglimerick
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    A few reasons of why I LOVE Nuka-World[Fallout 4-DLC]

    Posted: 30 Jul 2020 02:34 AM PDT

    Nuka-World will always old a special place in my heart and a few reasons why it will always be my favorite Fallout 4 DLC.

    1. It's Pre-War lore:From Project Colbalt to Vault-Tec: Among the Stars,Nuka-World always succeeds in providing me with another lore filled story after another and it keeps me drawn in for hours at a time.I've always liked that each park had different and unique stories like Kiddie Kingdom with Oswald the Outrageous and Safari Adventure with Cito and the Gatorclaw cloning facility.I also like how it touches light on the shady dealings the Nuka-Cola Corporation had and the backstory on Nuka-Cola(the soda) and it's creator.However apart from that I find the Raiders to be quite boring and that some of it's potential had gone to waste.
    2. It's wide array of creatures:I've always liked the different variety of animals that came with Nuka-Word such as the Brahmiluffs and the Gazelles.It makes me not want to shoot them even if I have to because they are just so interesting,especially the Bloodworms as I find it interesting how a water-based creature can mutate and become a literal mole rat.I like to think what something like mutated Horses and Giraffes would look like and I hope Bethesda would explore other creatures in their future fallout games.
    3. Nuka-World settlement objects:I really like Nuka-World so I like to add some stuff from Nuka-World into my settlement for my settlers to enjoy.Nuka-World adds a lot of things to the workshop like statues,posters,furniture,and signs that somewhat expands out from the bland and boring vanilla workshop.I also like that you can build the soda mixers so you can make the other Nuka-Cola recipe in the Commonwealth without having to go back all the way to Nuka-World.

    All in all I really like Nuka-World and I feel like it's overrated and sometimes is overshadowed by Far Harbor(which is also a pretty good DLC)so what do you think about Nuka-World?Do love it or hate and explain why in the comments.

    submitted by /u/Mrminutemansupreme
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    Is the cow tipping Easter egg in fallout 4 like it is in fallout 3?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 06:31 PM PDT

    I haven't checked yet, but if not, i am gonna make a pointless mod that implements it into the game lol.

    submitted by /u/arrriah
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    If you were the Overseer

    Posted: 30 Jul 2020 04:08 AM PDT

    A small situation play. You are the overseer of a vault. The bombs fell, and doors closed. You got hundreds of people in it.

    Your secret orders are to make cybernetic experiment on the population with the goal to improve their efficiency, and potential survival outside.

    The doors are about to open in 150 years.

    How would you carry out the orders?

    1. F**k the orders. The world is dead. You just do what you can to keep them safe, and alive.
    2. Conduct experiments as safe as possible, and preferably on criminals, and elders.
    3. Do what you can, but keep a certain minimum population. If numbers go below that, then all experiments halted until the population is great enough again.
    4. Do whatever it takes to get results.
    submitted by /u/Jewbacca1991
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    Benny in fallout NV

    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 06:27 PM PDT

    I was replaying NV and got past the Benny part but i was wondering, what wouldve Benny accomplished if he somehow managed to get to the bunker and insert the platinum chip? He didnt have access to the Lucky 38. Wouldn't he just have given Mr. House the upgrade and gotten nothing in return?

    submitted by /u/carlittotito
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    Has Anyone Experienced this XP Glitch Before?

    Posted: 30 Jul 2020 03:40 AM PDT

    So, my game glitched hard as fuck last night.

    In New Vegas, I obtained the black widow perk early, as I already knew about my preferred path of killing Benny. I went straight to Tops, used the perk to seduce him, and then easily killed him after sex. I took all of his loot, and left without even opening the door to Yes Man. Never having met House before, I took the platinum chip to him, effectively completing The House Always Wins I without a previous introduction. I got 1,000 caps out of the deal. Upon finishing the securitron upgrade demonstration with House, and beginning the second part of the quest-line, I run into the control room, and kill him with a ripper.

    I see my XP start to rise, and I level up once.

    Then twice.

    Then three times.

    Then four.

    It didn't stop until I reached level 50.

    Has anyone encountered anything like this before? I haven't until now, and I was really taken aback by it.

    submitted by /u/TheOriginalCross
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    Cause of Ranger Station Charlie casualties

    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 11:33 PM PDT

    So, I was walking by the mentioned place and a lot of things were going on at once. Bright Brotherhood dude got killed by 4 legionnaires who then ambush a caravan but fail miserably and get killed. Then 20 ft away NCR patrol marches in same direction from Charlie but they're all killed by 4 Nightstalkers which in turn are killed by the caravan. This all happens simultaneously as I watched standing in the middle of the road. The problem is that there is no Nightstalkers' den in the area. Is it because of wild wasteland trait or is it scripted?

    submitted by /u/Statisticsisalie
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    how big is Fallout 4's map compared to 3 and New Vegas?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 07:23 PM PDT

    I legit haven't been able to get a concise answer on this. Some people say that 4 is way bigger but I've also been hearing that it's a bit smaller than both? Is there a general consensus on how FO4s map size compared to the other entries in the series or not?

    submitted by /u/Zapaeryan
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    How do people enjoy Dead Money?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 06:19 PM PDT

    I'm about 2 hours in and I gotta say this is the worst DLC of any game I have ever played. Don't get me wrong, the dialogue and characters are very well written, but holy fuck the gameplay is horrible. I can't go 5 seconds without setting off a trap, having my head blown off, or encountering a ghost that has an UNLIMITED supply of explosives. If you don't have melee at 100, then good luck.

    submitted by /u/Nicka812
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    I made the mistake of entering Lukowski’s before building a trading emporium, and I can’t load a save without losing a lot of progress because it’s survival. I made it back to Starlight as quickly as I could and built the trading post. Is there any chance she’ll still be at Lukowski’s?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 08:39 PM PDT

    Edit: everyone probably knows I'm talking about Rylee, but I forgot to include that in the title

    Edit 2: turns out, by either luck or some form of black magic, she was still there. She's now running the general store at Starlight

    submitted by /u/8Bit-Armory
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    The game with blatant Bawls Energy Drink product placement that isn't Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel

    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 07:09 PM PDT

    So I have been touching up on my interplay/black isle lore recently and I was in a video touching on the everybody's favorite subject, fallout: brotherhood of steel and I noticed something that fired a spark in my brain which must have fired up the old memory vault and I made a connection, bawls energy drink.

    I played this game when I was a kid, horrible game but one that was so bad that it was good and it too had bawls energy drink in it. I remembered the name of it, Run Like Hell or RLH. Basic premise is, 3rd person space horror shooter with a chase mechanic and some puzzles. badass stoic survivor has to save his friends and battle his way through a series of monsters to save the day, I won't ruin the plot too much cause i know you'll be dying to play it after this, but long story short it was pretty mediocre leaning more to bad.

    I did some research and found out it was made two years before brotherhood of steel, I thought it was kind of fascinating that the egregious product placement and metal soundtrack was present here too in a game and franchise so sub parr to fallout. It absolutely shows the desperation of the company at this point trying to pull funding wherever it could and actually having to offer up the bare bones carcass of the fallout franchise to the mainstream like some kind of pagan sacrifice to save the company.

    I also have to note the difference in my personal distaste with both games based on the 'in your face' product placement. With brotherhood of steel it was like a sour, bitter taste that makes you want to wash your mouth immediately with bleach so you never have to taste anything again, compared to the taste of bawls energy drink. Granted at the time I was oblivious to the drama taking place behind interplay doors and would probably detest such product placement in games these days, even under such dire circumstances.

    Another thing I have to note is the sub parr nature of both the titles. having one that is a decline on a beloved series I feel taints the overall bias you have to feeling one way or the other about the actual game play and mechanics, not to say that there are many, if any comparisons you can draw between both games in a technical sense, but after playing both I feel I can definitively say to myself that it wasn't just the decline of the series but a decline of the company as a whole and I really do feel that the franchise as a whole is better of in the hands of Bethesda.

    Its kinda nice to have that age old question finally tied up in a neat little package through my own experience and research. I know I'm stating a lot of obvious history here but I'm trying to give this from the perspective of a relative latecomer to the whole story, and somebody who experienced it solely from the consumers perspective as I only played fallout 3 in my early teens then went back and played the originals. blasphemy I know as I'm old enough to have played the originals first, which I sadly missed the boat on, but I grew up in a small Australian country town and didn't really have access a lot of games till like 99 - 01, and even then I doubt fallout 1 and 2 would have been very common in Australia at that time and to make matters even less in my favour I was between 8 and 11 at that time with the nearest place I could actually get games (if my parents would buy them for me) was like 2.5 hours away.

    Thanks to all that have taken the time to read this far, I really appreciate taking the time.

    submitted by /u/SirPancakes11
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    Fallout 3 won't work anymore (cont.)

    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 01:14 PM PDT

    Starting a new thread from my old one a few hours ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/hzx5u9/fallout_3_wont_work_anymore/

    So, I've done just about everything everyone recommended in the post above. However... it's the same, even after I reinstalled it. It's the same problem or worse... I'm going to try and lower everything to it's minimal performance in hopes I can identify the problem, but... I don't know. I'm starting to lose my patience, I just wanna experience Fallout 3. Is there anything else I could do? Anything I could be doing wrong?

    submitted by /u/KashootUpTheSchool
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    We’ll meet again by Johnny cash would set the PERFECT atmosphere for the radio in fallout 5

    Posted: 30 Jul 2020 02:21 AM PDT

    Anyone wanting to play Fallout 3 and new Vegas.

    Posted: 30 Jul 2020 02:02 AM PDT

    So my first Bethesda game was fallout 4. I fell in love with that game I went about 4 days constantly playing it. After hearing how much better 3 and NV were I just had to get them. I got the games back in 2018 and when I started playing I got frustrated fast. I played through FO4 on hard difficulty and thought I'd do the same for FO3 and NV. I found myself stopping both games and leaving them as they were way to difficult. I only recently came back to FO3 and lowered the difficulty to normal and NOW I'm having that same fun I had with FO4. I'll probably do the same with NV. I made this post to say that if you're having the same problem as me and find the games are more difficult than modern games just lower the difficulty and you'll have that fallout experience you crave.

    submitted by /u/Joisedog
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    Any Fallout 3 multiplayer mods?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 09:54 PM PDT

    I'm looking for a co-op mod for fallout 3. I've heard of vault MP but I've also seen it's only a framework so I'm doing some digging and seeing if I can't find an actual co-op mod for fallout 3. If not fallout 3 then would anybody know if fallout NV or FO4 have one? I heard the Fallout NV mod got shut down.

    submitted by /u/pixelbyte_gaming
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    Where can I consistently find handmade rifles in Fallout 76?

    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 06:05 PM PDT

    I have a two shot, explosive legendary handmade that I would like to get an automatic receiver for but I haven't found very many out in the world, even when going to a few of the new raider camps.

    submitted by /u/conman752
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    Oh My Papa quest line help

    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 07:25 PM PDT

    Does anyone know a way through the quarry without being killed by all the deathclaws? Or kill Papa khan with out being noticed?

    submitted by /u/Paper_Coffee
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    [Fallout 4] Semper Invicta Quest Glitch

    Posted: 29 Jul 2020 09:14 PM PDT

    I'm trying to do the semper Invicta quest and I'm at "Support the Brotherhood Recon Team" it says to talk to the two people at the police station but when I do nothing happens. How do I progress in the quest line?

    Thanks for reading:)

    submitted by /u/ethanstehr
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    Easy Pete and the Dislike for the NCR

    Posted: 30 Jul 2020 12:58 AM PDT

    Easy Pete said he moved out of NCR area of jurisdiction to settle down in Goodsprings. What is the reason he fears/dislikes the NCR? Taxes? Also, what could the big loot he was about to win possibly be that he was talking about?

    submitted by /u/Statisticsisalie
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